El Cupolog

Interview with Reinhard Seifert: Scientist Calls Peru Conga Mining Project an ‘Environmental Disaster’

This article is part of a series on resistance to mining in Cajamarca, Peru, written by Alice Bernard and Diego Cupolo. It was originally published on UpsideDownWorld.org on May 1, 2012.

Over the last three decades, German-born environmental engineer Reinhard Seifert has played a significant role in the movement against mining operations in Cajamarca, Peru. He is former president of the Frente de Defensa Ambiental de Cajamarca and has conducted extensive research on the effects of mining on the region’s water resources.

For his actions, Seifert has been persecuted, threatened and arrested, but he continues his work as the Peruvian government currently weighs its decision on the future of the Conga gold mine. If approved, the project would give Denver-based Newmont Mining Corp. the ability to construct one of the world’s largest gold mines on fragile, high-altitude wetlands.

Seifert has lived in Cajamarca with his family for more than 35 years and specializes in hydrogeological sciences.

Let’s start simply: Can you tell us why the Conga Gold Mine project is facing so much resistance from residents in the Cajamarca region?

Well, that’s very simple. It’s been about twenty years since Newmont opened its Yanacocha gold mine in Cajamarca. In the beginning they promised to bring new jobs to the area and said the mining process wouldn’t contaminate the environment, but neither of those things happened. The jobs went to foreigners and people from other regions while heavy metals and other toxins were dumped into our water supply on a daily basis.

But the water issue is just one part. The resistance also comes from Newmont’s horrendous mining practices, its lack of serious environmental studies and the lack of regulations due to widespread corruption. Newmont is free to do what it pleases as the rest of us suffer.

After twenty years, the people of Cajamarca have seen how Newmont works and they won’t be fooled again. That’s why they’re so determined to stop Conga. The project is basically an expansion of the Yanacocha mine, but it will be much bigger and much worse. They want to go into an area that supplies our drinking water and replace four high-altitude lakes with toxic waste dumps and artificial reservoirs.

Why should we, the people of Cajamarca, drink artificial, contaminated water for the profit of a foreign-owned private company?

You’ve conducted many water quality studies in the Cajamarca region. What kinds of contamination are you finding?

Now, I can tell you for sure that there is contamination with arsenic and heavy metals in the region’s largest rivers. Since Yanacocha opened, we’ve noticed livestock have been loosing their teeth and trout have died by the thousands in rural areas.

A normal pH for water is 6.87. When it goes under 5 the water becomes acidic and trout begin to die. In the Rio Grande and Rio Porcon, the two biggest rivers supplying Cajamarca’s drinking water, we observed a pH of 3.5. It’s catastrophic.

Are there any regulations on the amount of pollution these industries can release into the environment or water sources?

Well, yes, but they’re not being followed and they’re not being enforced. Newmont has bought off most of the judges and politicians in this country so they can operate freely and as they call it “legally”, without even conducting studies on the effects of their mining. They refuse to admit any kind of contamination.

Furthermore, they have the guts to come and tell me my results over water analysis are wrong, that I’m twisting information and misinforming the people of Cajamarca. There is one thing I cannot stand, it’s when people take me for a fool. Studying the contamination of water is working with exact numbers and precise mathematics.

The facts speak for themselves. If you’re Muslim and I’m Christian then yes, we can argue or fight. With science that doesn’t work. In the facts, the water we consume in Cajamarca barely qualifies for Class III levels, which is supposed to be used strictly for agriculture. Class I and Class II are for human consumption and we haven’t had that since the mining started.

But the state doesn’t control any of this. They simply tell us the water quality is at legal levels without having the capacity or technology to test mining contaminants in the water.

Can you explain in more detail how Newmont extracts gold at the Yanacocha mine and how they handle their waste?

The extraction process is very different from what most people imagine when they think of gold mines. Newmont is not finding gold nuggets in a cave, it is collecting tiny, microscopic fragments of gold from large quantities of dirt and sand that they excavate from gigantic open pit mines.

They have to use a mixture of water and cyanide to separate the gold fragments from the dirt. The process obviously produces large amounts of toxic waste water. This requires very specific technology, for example, powerful water treatment plants and top-notch waste storage facilities, all of which are completely absent from Yanacocha.

Because Newmont lacks these technologies, the water does not get fully treated and it gets dumped into waste reservoirs where it leaks into the subterranean water table along with the cyanide and many other chemicals like lead, arsenic and mercury.

This process is being used at Yanacocha and it will be the same for Conga. It’s an environmental disaster. As far as I know, Newmont’s mining practices are prohibited in all the European Union, the United states, Argentina and Germany. The chemicals they dump in our water system can’t be boiled out. We, as Cajamarcans, consume them every day.

Have there been any documented health problems linking the gold mines to specific illnesses in the Cajamarca region?

The thing is that cancers and other contamination-related illnesses are hard to track. Toxins build up in your body over time. It’s like smoking cigarettes. One won’t kill you, but 10 years of smoking will. Usually, we find the illnesses 20 years after exposure and by then it’s usually too late.

Newmont is one of the biggest mining companies in the world, don’t they have the capacity to reduce the environmental impact of their operations?

Yes, Newmont has the money to improve it’s technology. If it wanted to, it could easily shift to a cleaner, more environmentally friendly technology. There are two reasons why it doesn’t do it. First, for the higher costs, but mostly because they would have to admit publicly that their old technology did contaminate and wasn’t adequate. Obviously, Newmont will never concede such a thing and therefore will go on with its old practices. Anyways, they are given no restrictions, they feel no pressure from the Peruvian government to improve anything.

Earlier you also hinted that government corruption plays a role in the Conga issue. Can you expand?

In Peru, corruption is our daily bread. The Peruvian state acts like Newmont’s twin brother. They’re the same. Normally, you want a government to be impartial and regulate industries, but here the “revolving door” principle is everywhere and even Ollanta wouldn’t be able to change this.

An example? Carlos Martinez, ex-functionary of Peru’s Ministry of Agriculture, was the one in charge of giving out the permits for Yanacocha’s free use of the subterranean and superficial waters in Cajamarca. Back then, he was being paid around 700$ a month. Now the same person works for Yanacocha and makes millions of dollars a year while Newmont pays absolutely nothing for the water they use in their operations.

The examples are everywhere. Sons of supreme court judges work for Yanacocha. Sons of fiscals too. If we want to make a serious effort to resolve anything in Peru, first we have to put an end to government corruption, and then we can focus on the problems caused by foreign mining companies.

Do you have any future actions planned concerning Newmont and the Conga project?

I’m actually in the process of writing a book about the hydrogeological systems in Cajamarca, but I also have bigger plans in mind concerning Newmont, only I can’t tell you about them right now. It would ruin the surprise. Sorry.

Any last words?

Water respects natural laws. It infiltrates everything it can find, goes where it pleases and supplies all the rivers it can reach. The water on the proposed Conga site flows down both sides of the Andes to the Pacific, the Amazon, and to the Atlantic.

It’s simple, the top nourishes the bottom. What happens when the mine chops up and dries the whole top? The very source of it all? The whole cycle is destroyed. And what will we do then?

Water is our most important resource. Forget about gold or copper or all those so-called precious metals. So far, their exploitation hasn’t improved the lives of most people in Cajamarca and, at this point, I don’t think it ever will.

Bars of Gold

Cajamarca, Peru - © Diego Cupolo 2012

“There is a sufficiency in the world for man’s need but not for man’s greed”

~Mohandas K. Gandhi

Proposed Conga Gold Mine Site - Cajamarca, Peru - © Diego Cupolo 2012

Lunch Break

Proposed Conga Gold Mine Site - Cajamarca, Peru - © Diego Cupolo 2012

World Water Day Rally

Proposed Conga Gold Mine Site - Cajamarca, Peru - © Diego Cupolo 2012

Las Cajamarqinas

Cajamarca, Peru - © Diego Cupolo 2012

El Cajamarquino

Cajamarca, Peru - © Diego Cupolo 2012

Just Kids

Cajamarca, Peru - © Diego Cupolo 2012

“We are overcome by anguish at this illogical moment of humanity”

Cajamarca, Peru - © Diego Cupolo 2012

Entering the protest

Cajamarca, Peru - © Diego Cupolo 2012

Road block to the Conga Protest

Regional police set up various road blocks on our way to the Conga gold mine protest on World Water Day. They’d check our passports and write down our names, explaining that they were protecting private property by closing public roads. It would make for an interesting day.

Cajamarca, Peru - © Diego Cupolo 2012

Conga Con Fusiles: An interview with Dr. César Aliaga Díaz

By Alice Bernard and Diego Cupolo

Published April 4, 2012 on Upsidedownworld.org.

Dr. César Aliaga Díaz is the regional vice president of Cajamarca, Peru. His government has taken a central role in the fight to stop the proposed Conga Gold Mine, a $4.8 billion project owned by Denver-based Newmont Mining Corp. The mine will be located in Cajamarca’s Andean highlands, where five major headwaters originate and supply the region’s drinking water. If passed, Conga is set to become the biggest investment in Peru’s history and second-largest gold mine in the world. The following interview was conducted on Monday, March 19, 2012.

It’s been almost twenty years since Newmont opened its Yanacocha gold mine just outside Cajamarca and started the region’s mining boom. You studied the industry’s impacts on local communities in your book, A Tajo Abierto. What types of changes has gold mining brought to Cajamarca?

Well, the region’s transformation has created many problems. Before the mines, we were an agriculture-based, pre-capitalist society. You could say we were still living in the medieval era. People traded livestock and milk. Our economy was simple. 

Then Newmont came and we changed directly into a modern capitalist production center. We grew very quickly. We got new social classes. Land prices went up ridiculously. Some properties here cost more than properties in Lima.

The mines attracted people from all over Peru. Thousands came looking for jobs, but not all of them got one. This ended up bringing more crime to our city along with drugs and prostitution. We didn’t have homeless people before the mines. This was new for us. They’re mostly farmers that sold their land to the mine, spent all the money and then realized they had nothing left.

How did Cajamarca react to the growth?

The city wasn’t prepared for such a rapid change. Public services collapsed. Hospitals, schools. We simply didn’t have enough resources to handle all the new residents. To this day, the demand is so high we still have neighborhoods that get water for only two hours a day.

As a result, there was an increase in private services and the gap between the rich and the poor widened. We now have the pre-capitalist farmers that have always been here, living side by side with rich mining families from other parts of Peru and the world. The contrast is striking. 

Of course, the mines brought a lot of money to the region. We now have a nice central plaza and a new shopping mall, but the majority of Cajamarcans did not see any improvements in their lives.

The Conga project will be an expansion of the Yanacocha gold mine. We noticed the phrase “Conga No Va” [Conga won’t go] spray-painted on almost every street in this city. Can you explain why locals are against the project?

People are against Conga because it’s more of the same. Over the last twenty years, they’ve watched foreigners come in and get rich off their land without getting a share of the profits. They’ve watched their mountains get turned inside out. They’ve watched the trout disappear from their rivers and, in some cases, they’ve watched their rivers simply disappear.

Many Cajamarcans are tired of the mines. They see Newmont as a bad neighbor that lies and steals their resources.They’re set on stopping Conga. It’s a very exciting time for them. This is the first time these people have been politically active in their lives. We’ve never had a movement like this in the history of the region and it’s been interesting to watch them get organized and go out on the streets.

When did Cajamarca’s regional government take its position against the Conga gold mine project?

The regional government started directly participating in the debate in the fall of 2011 when our regional president Gregorio Santos backed the general strike on October 9th, but we’ve been critical of the development of the project long before that. 

In June of 2011, we visited the lagoons on the Conga site to do a general overview of the land and found its ecosystems to be too fragile for mining activities. Shortly after, we reviewed the environmental impact study (EIS) that approved the project in 2010 and found serious deficiencies. As the protests became more and more frequent, we felt obligated to respond to our resident’s concerns and represent their voice so we put together the 036 regional ordinance.

Can you explain the purpose of the 036 regional ordinance?

Basically, it’s an ordinance which declares the Conga project unviable and protects the land and water sources on the proposed mining site. The ordinance has yet to go into effect because its constitutionality is currently being challenged in the judicial court. The national government has accused us of going too far with 036, but as a lawyer, I’m confident we are not abusing our functions and I hope this ordinance will help put an end to Conga.

At the moment, the Conga project has been suspended while three foreign consultants review the EIS. They have 40 days to conduct their research. In a few weeks, their findings will be announced and will determine the future of the project. What is your opinion on the matter?

Originally, the idea was brought in to quell regional demonstrations. Here in Cajamarca, few people take this review seriously. The results are predictable, the government is paying these foreign consultants $250,000 each. They’re simply going to say whatever pleases their bosses. 

In reality, the EIS did not have any methodology or serious scientific approach. It’s so bad that we simply need to throw it out and make a new one. Reviewing this ten-thousand page study in forty days cannot possibly work. What we need is a new EIS, not a rushed review of the old one. 

Can you explain what was wrong with the original EIS?

It’s all a big joke! Newmont submitted the studies and they were approved within months. Usually, an EIS takes at least two years to process. You normally need nine hydrogeology studies before starting an operation like this. Newmont said they didn’t have enough time to fill that obligation.

On top of it all, the EIS was approved by Felipe Ramirez del Pino, a former manager for Newmont that now works in the Ministry of Energy and Mines. The revolving door concept is very popular in our government and, as a result, we’re left with an EIS that gives us absolutely zero knowledge of the mine’s future impacts on the quantity and quality of the water in the region.

Yet none of this seems to matter. The national government has made its decision. They say Conga goes and that’s it. They don’t want to listen to our complaints.

Is it possible to reach a compromise between Newmont, the regional government and the national government that would allow mining on the Conga site under different conditions?

No. For us, Conga should not happen at all. The land they want to exploit is extremely fragile. It’s full of lakes, marshes, and high altitude wetlands where all our rivers and water sources originate. If they open a mine in the area, they will have to remove a large amount of subterranean water and the mining process will inevitably contaminate the bodies of water that remain – meaning, our fresh water supply.
I see three scenarios for the future. The first is the national government will keep showing little interest in our protests and concerns and will allow Conga to move forward. If this happens, I see a big resistance building up and the military will be brought into the area to stabilize the movement and protect Newmont’s interests. This is what we call “Conga con Fusiles” [Conga with rifles].

The second scenario is that Conga doesn’t go through, the consultants say its a bad idea, Newmont drops the project, and we have a big party here in Cajamarca. The third would be what you’re talking about, a compromise of some kind, but for us it would just be a ploy to gain time before we can push them out completely.

The mining industry plays a major role in Peru’s economy. More than sixty percent of the nation’s exports come from mining. Conga would represent the largest single investment in Peru’s history. If the project is stopped, the national government believes Peru will suffer an economic disaster. What’s your opinion?

The question we have to ask ourselves is “what kind of a country do we want to live in?” What kind of a system do we want to adopt to develop our resources? In the early 1990s, under Fujimori’s dictatorship, Peru’s economy was extremely weak so the country opened its doors to foreign investment without setting many boundaries or implementing regular tax codes. In that period we didn’t have much of a choice. Neoliberalism became our new guideline. 

Then, when the Yanacocha gold mine opened, capital flew into the government’s corrupted hands as the majority of Cajamarcans suffered the impacts. Today, Peru’s economy has more or less stabilized. We can afford to decide whether an investment is good or not for our resources and our people – not just for the economy.

The national government thinks the Conga protests are just about money. They tried to calm down demonstrators by raising taxes on the Conga project, but that’s not enough. The fight against Conga is a wide cultural resistance. It’s important to remember that most of Cajamarcans share strong beliefs regarding their land. Their religion revolves around these rivers and lakes. Taking this away from them is more harmful then what most people would imagine. Newmont does not have the social license to do such a thing.

So, in your opinion, what’s the best way to improve Peru’s development strategy?

We must revise Fujimori’s constitution of 1993. It gives too much power to the national government and foreign investors. Regions are left with limited, sometimes minimal influence over the policies that most affect them. 

We must listen to the voice of our regions. The people that live on the land are the one’s most familiar with its potential. Here in Cajamarca, we are very rich in resources, our mountains are full of gold, but we are home to some of the poorest people in Peru. How does that make sense? All we need is the right infrastructure to develop our resources. Right now, we have one paved highway and it leads to the mines.

There’s cyanide in the water

One of three cyanide tanks outside Newmont’s Yanacocha gold mine in Cajamarca, Peru. The Denver-based company mixes cyanide with water to extract gold fragments from large quantities of soil. Once the extraction process is complete, the contaminated water is disposed in nearby lagoons and reservoirs, where it leaks into groundwater resources that supply the region’s drinking water.

Cajamarca, Peru - © Diego Cupolo 2012

Gold Country

Cajamarca, Peru - © Diego Cupolo 2012

A Different Occupation

Ania and I walked right into the beast: continuous region-wide protests against the Conga gold mine, a $4.8 billion U.S.-owned  project in Cajamarca, Peru. Immediately, we took out our writing pads and started conducting interviews.

Upsidedownworld.org published our first article on the Conga mine today. More will come soon.

Cajamarca, Peru - © Diego Cupolo 2012